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baterie Li-Ion incarcare/descarcare un sfat avizat va rog, are o chichitza

#1 Useril este offline   Alex Baccilu 

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Postat 01 September 2006 - 12:46 PM

Dragii mei,
Am o baterie Li-Ion recuperata de pe o mini-imprimanta pentru laptop, portabila.
Incarcarea bateriei de 10.8 V o fac folosind electronica imprimantei, care imprimanta nu mai functioneaza din motive mecanice.
Dupa ce se incarca, ledul de pe printer se stinge cuminte si arata ca incarcarea a avut loc cu succes.
Pana aici toate bune.
Scot bateria incarcata si masor pe contactele de plus si minus... nu am tensiune decat pana injumatate de volt. Am desfacut-o... inauntru e electronica de parca esti la NASA. Pun voltmetrul pe capetele celor 3 celule dinauntru si vad ca-s bune. Exact 10.8 V. Pun un consumator si observ ca merge de rupe - un motoras cu o elica. L-am lasat sa mearga o ora si apoi am intrat la idei: daca nu fac bine? Un prieten mi-a soptit ca sa nu care cumva sa o descarc de tot ca e pericol.
Acum stau si ma uit la ea si astept o parere de la voi. Ce sa fac? Sa trag PE LANGA electronica ei? Probabil ori electronica ei este defecta dar doar partea de dat curent, ori imprimanta o "comanda" cand sa prinda viata.

Rezumat: o incarc PRIN electronica ei dar o consum PE LANGA, direct de pe elementi. E bine ce fac?
Curentul pe care-l trag nu e mai mare decat cel din specificatii. :)

Multumesc frumos.

Edit: bateria are 4 contacte, plus, minus si inca doua, cu un semn de masa pe unul si litera C pe celalalt.

Aceasta postare a fost editata de Alex Baccilu: 01 September 2006 - 12:48 PM

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#2 Useril este offline   vlad1 

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Postat 01 September 2006 - 03:31 PM

La Litiu (Io), atit la supraincarcare (depasire a tensiunii maxim admisibile), cit si la supradescarcare (sub tensiunea minim admisa), au loc reactii chimice si fizice violente in interiorul celulei (degajare de caldura sau gaze deosebit de toxice). Din acest motiv, bateriile vin cu electronica lor. Deci atita timp cit te incadrezi in parametrii specificati, nu se intimpla nimic, dar:

- la supraincarcare, ia foc - apa sau umiditatea din atmosfera constituie un bun carburant pentru litiu (ii place), arde la temperatura mai mare ca otelul, in aer liber
- la supraconsum, se depaseste capacitatea de lichefiere, si degaja gaz (LiIo, este realizat practic de citeva zeci de ani, dar nu a fost admis sa circule in public atit e de toxic, si de aia se prefera LiPo)
- la subdescarcare, se produc reactii ireversibile in celula.

Deci, cit esti in parametrii e OK.

Aceasta postare a fost editata de vlad1: 01 September 2006 - 03:33 PM

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#3 Useril este offline   SILVIU66 

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Postat 01 September 2006 - 03:52 PM

sa nu care cumva sa scazi sub 3 sau maxim -maximorum 2,9 v/celula ca e nasoala treaba.
daca descarci pana la 3v in limita curentului din specificatiile packului nu e nici o problema.
dar ai mare grija la incarcare.
flying is my life...
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#4 Useril este offline   Cirip 

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Postat 01 September 2006 - 05:24 PM

Salut,

Ceva nu se leaga aici. Bateriile pa baza de litiu au 4.2V/celula la incarcare completa. Daca dupa incarcare ai 10.8V, ceva nu e in regula. Ar trebui sa ai 3*4.2=12.6V in gol, incarcate complet.

Din ceea ce spui, 10.8/3=3.6V/celula. Ar fi o idee sa masori fiecare celula, dar la 3.6V in gol eu le consider descarcate. Folosesc pe avioane si LiPO si LiIon, doua celule. Controlerul de motor ma da afara la 6V in sarcina. Cand masor la sol, fara sarcina, tensiunea e intre 7.2...7.3V, adica aprox 3.6V/celula.

Dupa mine incarcarea pare sa nu functioneze si as propune sa nu mai pui sarcina pe ele ca sa nu le descarci sub limita de 3V/celula.

Cirip
Teorie este atunci cand stii totul, dar nu merge nimic.
Practica este cand toate merg, dar nu stii de ce.
Montajele mele imbina teoria cu practica: nu merge nimic si nu stiu de ce.
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#5 Useril este offline   Alex Baccilu 

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Postat 01 September 2006 - 08:27 PM

Bateria e produsa de Canon, made in Japan si scrie pe ea ca are 10.8 V si 1500mAh. Scrie si ca e Li-Ion.
Inauntru sunt 3 celule, cam la fel cat o baterie A4 de lungi dar mai groase. Le-am masurat pe fiecare in parte si, incarcate, au intr-adevar ~ 3.6 V. Totalul e 10.8, exact cat scrie pe pack. Si eu m-am mirat dar exact asa este. Am sa pun o poza cu ea dar acum este la incarcat si nu se vede eticheta.
Ce ziceti, cam la cati volti, per total, sa o bag la incarcare?
Boardgame is the future!
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#6 Useril este offline   kele 

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Postat 01 September 2006 - 09:27 PM

10.8 V poate fi valoarea nominala.
Si la LiPo se da valoarea nominala, cu 3.7 V pe celula: la 2s 7.4 V fata de 8,4 cat e in starea de incarcare max., iar la 3s -11.1 V fata de 12.6 V.
Deci e cum zice cirip. Incarcat valoarea ar trebui sa fie in jur de 12.6 V daca ai 3 celule.
Da aripi viselor tale!
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#7 Useril este offline   Cirip 

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Postat 01 September 2006 - 10:09 PM

Daca faci incarcarea prin electronica imprimantei, cum spuneai, masoara tensiunea totala la terminarea incarcarii. Dupa aia mai discutam in functie de rezultate.

Atentie, nu incarca litiu cu incarcator de NiCd, NiMH sau cu improvizatii, ca e posibil sa bubuie. Sunt sute de cazuri documentate pe rcgroups. Se poate folosi incarcator home-made, dar trebuie facut pentru litiu, adica incarcare CC/CV.

Daca descarci "pe de laturi" ramane valabila regula de a nu descarca mai jos de 3V/celula in sarcina. Deci consumatorul trebuie sa fie capabil sa detecteze cand a fost atinsa limita de jos a tensiunii. Daca nu ai asa ceva, se poate aproxima prin timpul de functionare si o oarecare marja de siguranta.

Cirip
Teorie este atunci cand stii totul, dar nu merge nimic.
Practica este cand toate merg, dar nu stii de ce.
Montajele mele imbina teoria cu practica: nu merge nimic si nu stiu de ce.
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#8 Useril este offline   radian 

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Postat 02 September 2006 - 08:54 AM

Am gasit (nu mai stiu unde, dar l-am copiat pe HDD...) un articol despre LiPo care cred ca iti va folosi (am scos foto. din document)

Lithium Polymer Batteries
Brian Mulder

The battery revolution is here . . . well almost. The Lithium Polymer (LiPoly) Cell has arrived and is changing the course of electric flying as people have known it till now. If you told somebody that you were going to pull 20 Amps from a 3-cell pack weighing 156 grams and fly for 8 minutes full tap, they would probably tell you to stop watching the sci-fi channel. Well, the truth is . . . it is reality!
This huge advance in Battery Technology is wonderful, but there are down sides to it as well.
These cells are far more fragile than NiCad or Ni-MH, and if abused, can result in your house or car being burned to the ground.
Am I exaggerating this? Not at all! It has happened a few times and scores of people have had close shaves. This technology has to be treated correctly and the safest way to use them is to acquire as much information as you possibly can about them in order to enjoy in safety the benefits these new cells can provide.
We must also be aware that these cells have not been designed for use in our RC planes, but we want to use them because they are significantly lighter than comparable NiCad or Ni-MH batteries, which makes our planes fly longer and better. Right, so lets look at these cells a little more closely.
The Technology
LiPoly is a variation of the Li-Ion cell, a cell well known for some time now due to its use in cellphones. The primary difference between these two types of cells is in the electrolyte. Li-Ion uses a liquid electrolyte whereas Lipoly uses a gel type electrolyte.
The gel electolyte makes it possible to package the cell in a foil pouch with an outer plastic laminate. This packaging occupies less space and weighs less than the traditional metal can. The foil pouch permits greater space for active material, and it can be readily formed into a shape closely tailored to the space available in the application for which it is intended. Further more, the foil can reduce the cell weight by 50% or more.
The reduction of weight in the packaging however, is not the reason for which these cells are sought after. In fact the packaging is more of a problem for us, but we will get back to that shortly. It is the Power or Energy Density that makes these cells so good.
The table below shows that the Li-Poly packs three to four times the energy of a "normal cell" for the same weight — "energy density".
Physical Properties of Different Types

NiCad NiMH Li-Ion Li-Poly
voltage 1,2 1,2 3,6 3,6
energy density
(by weight) (Wh/kg) 40 60 90 >130
energy density
(by volume) (Wh/litre) 100 140 250 310
self-discharge (/month) 15% 20% 6% 6%
weight (680 mAh) 17g 17g 16,5g 10-14g
Also, a single Li-Poly cell has a nominal voltage of 3,6V as opposed to the standard 1,2V in the cells we know. That means you need one LiPoly for every three normal cells!
The Cell Packaging
Unlike the cylindrical AA or sub C shape we have grown accustomed to, these cells are thin flat devices, packaged in a foil pouch. What is important to understand here is that this pouch can be damaged far more easily than the NiCads we are used to. A crash can easily result in cells being punctured, allowing their electrolyte to ooze out. It is therefore very important that cells are packed correctly in an airframe to minimize damage in the event of a crash. Wrapping them in bundles of foam though, is not the answer. There is another very important parameter we need to cater for, and that is operating temperature.
Operating temperature
As we approach the maximum discharge capacity allowed for any given cell, temperature starts to play a prohibitive role. It is important that we do not exceed the maximum allowed temperature of about 80°C (140 to 160°F) or you will be heading for disastrous consequences.
An important comment here is that John L has on several occasionas published the value of 150°C as the critical temperature. This is well above the boiling point of water and few electronic components would survive long near it. For interest, extracted from JL's teaching knowledge, 60°C is about the highest temperature your fingers can tolerate, so 80°C will give you quite a burn!

Above the "critical temperature" there is a point of no return where "thermal runaway" occurs. Exceed that limit, and no amount of cooling is going to avoid a cell bursting into a ball of fire.
There is a flip side to the temperature issue though. The lithium polymer electrolyte does not like the cold. Its performance increases quite substantially when it operates within certain limits. It has been recommended that battery packs be kept out of the winter cold until they are used. This applies to storage as well. It has also been noted with interest, that multiple cell packs work better than one or two cell packs. The heating of the cells actually helps the other cells within a pack, providing of course you stay within the prescribed limits!
Cell Capacity & Discharge Ratings
Li-Poly is not entirely new. It has been around for a while now, but why they have become so useful lately, is because of the improved discharge rating or ‘C' ratings. First generation cells were only good for up to about 4C discharge (which means a 2600 mAh cell could be discharged at 4 x 2600 mA = 10400 mA or 10,4 A) and resulted in many cells being required in parallel ( * see below) in order to create a battery pack that could provide enough current. This made a pack very costly.
Today, cells are available that are capable of a nominal 8C discharge with a peak of up to 15C in short bursts. These parameters are improving all the time, and 20C has been referred to on various forums. Note however, that certain RC stores in South Africa are still selling the first generation cells and not the newer improved cells.
At the beginning of this article, I mentioned one of the primary advantages of Li-Poly being the energy density. Another great ability of Li-Poly, is the ability to wire them in parallel — a practice not encouraged with NiCad cells. This allows us to create a pack that can supply multiples of ‘C' discharge — I will cover this in the battery pack design example later in the column.
Voltage
Li-Poly has a nominal voltage of 3,6V and is basically considered as a replacement for 3 NiCad cells. The way the cell performs though, is slightly different. A fully charged Li-Poly cell will have a potential of 4,2V and is considered fully discharged when its voltage drops to about 3,0V. Unlike NiCads which hold a fairly constant voltage and die suddenly, Li-Poly will drop its 4,2 to a lower voltage, depending on the load it sees, from where the voltage will drop more slowly than a NiCad before dropping off in a way similar to that of NiCad. The final "dive" part of the discharge slope should not be allowed though. The speed controller must be set up in order to cut the throttle before, or at least at the very start of, the "dive" part of the curve is reached.
Deciding on the number of cells required can be tricky. A Speed-400 6V motor typically runs on a 7-cell pack of 8,4 volts. A 2-cell Li-Poly pack will provide about 7,2 volts under load, which is not quite enough power and a 3-cell pack will provide 10,8 volts, which will very quickly destroy the motor if driven at full power. Also bear in mind that the higher voltage will result in more current being drawn, or a higher C rating used, that could exceed the pack ability.
In this case, you have a couple of options available. The ideal one is to use a motor of suitable voltage, or to use/program your throttle stick to prevent burning the motor.
Currently available cells and dimensions

capacity
(mAh) weight
(g) L
(mm) W
(mm) T
(mm)
500 10,8 63 35 2,5
850 17,0 63 35 3,6
1100 21,8 63 35 5,0
1800 34,0 89 56 3,3
2200 42,5 89 56 3,8
2600 51,9 89 56 4,5







To give some perspective to the size of these cells, here are two views of the 1100 mAh version.
Creating a Battery Pack
Now that we have covered the basics, let's create a pack in order to bring together the points discussed.
First off, we must determine what our power requirement is. This is normally the wattage required in order to fly the airplane. We will not concern ourselves about this now, as that is a whole different subject, but let's assume Motocalc software predicts that we need 300 watts of input power.
The first step is to choose a pack voltage. This decision is normally based on what power converter (your motor) you have available.
To ease calculations, let's say we need 10V. So in order to achieve 300 watts input power, our current consumption will have to be 30 amps.
Power = Current x Voltage. Great, so let's select a cell from the table above.
The biggest cell available has a capacity of 2600 mAh. At a nominal discharge rating of 8C, the cell is capable of delivering almost 21 amps. This figure does not meet our 30 amp requirement — but if we can run two cells in parallel, then our discharge rating is doubled to 42 amps. Now we're talking!! As we only need 30 amps, each cell will provide 15 amps, resulting in a cooler, less stressed cell. (If only we had a resident artist to sketch a picture of a "stressed cell"!!! JL)
As for voltage, three cells will give us 9 volts in the discharged state and in excess of 12 volts in the fully charged state. So in order to complete the pack, we will need a total of six cells, consisting of three cells in series, connected in parallel with another three cells in series. If you have read anything about Li-Poly cells then you will have seen notations like 3s2p — meaning 3 series 2 parallel.
Overall capacity of our pack will be 5400 mAh and will supply 30 amps for a staggering 10 minutes at full power. Not bad. If you use your throttle stick conservatively, then those 10 minutes start stretching towards 20 minutes or more. Even better!!
But hang on . . . that additional current comes at a cost — weight. Could we not make up a pack using smaller cells that still meets the required C rating?
Yes indeed you can! The 1800 mAh cells, rated at 8C can deliver 14,4 amps. Two of these will come close to providing the current required. And this is when power management comes into play — the cell might be rated at 8C, but they can be pushed beyond that for short periods to give the required 15 amps each and 30 amps total.
The weight of six 1800 mAh cells is 204 g, where six 2600 mAh cells weigh 311 g!
The Charging Process
And here lies the big danger. If you visit RCGroups.com and do a search for Li-Poly and Fire, you will find scores and scores of hits relating to personal experiences. You can even download MPEGs or AVIs of Li-Polys going bang under charge. And it isn't a pretty sight! Some people actually resort to charging their cells in old metal ammo boxes or porcelain dishes. Even the kettle braai is being used!!! Do you need to resort to this? Not really, but if you want to play absolutely safe, it is recommended to place you battery pack in some kind of fire-containing box.
So what's up with the charging process then?
The charge process is surprisingly simple. It's even easier than NiCad for that matter — but it's different!
Just to refresh, a NiCad is charged with a constant current and monitored for what we call a delta peak. When the peak is detected, the charge cycle is switched off or continued with a trickle charge. With Li-Poly, a constant current is also used, (1C) but the charge is terminated at 4,2 volts. No delta peak is looked for — just a voltage level. I have used my own current limiting power supply to charge my cells. I set the voltage to 12,6 volts (3 cell pack) and adjust the current limit to about 1C or less When charging the cells, the current limiting pulls the voltage down, which then slowly rises as the cells charge. On reaching the set voltage, the current simple dies away. Easy as pie!
So then, what's the problem or danger you ask?
Answer . . . Cell Balancing.
When multiple cells are charged together, ideal cells will have their voltage rise equally over time. I have monitored mine and they are within 0,01 volt of each other at present. Problem is, as they age, the pack can become unbalanced.
What happens is that one or two cells in a 3-cell pack may rise more slowly than a good cell. By the time the two lower cells reach a voltage of 4V, the good cells have already exceeded the 4,2 volt allowed and started to balloon . . . which by the way, is the sign of impending failure and a possible fireball!
The simple fact is, no cell must be allowed to exceed its voltage limit.
It's that critical. Period!!
The other problem with charging these cells is the human element and chargers that are too clever for themselves. The human element is about programming wrong parameters into a charger, the most common being the incorrect number of cells or too high a charging current. Either of these can have disastrous results.
Hi tech chargers can also get it wrong. They read the pack voltage and try determining how many cells it sees. If the pack has been discharged too deeply, the number of cells seen could be incorrect. No need to say more.
The following text sums up everything you need to know about Li-poly.
It is taken from RC Groups under a thread title of —
Ultimate Guide to Lithium Polymer Batteries
1 Use only a charger approved for lithium batteries.
2 Make certain that the correct cell count is set on your charger.
3 NEVER charge the batteries unattended. This is the number one reason for houses and cars being burned to a crisp by lithium fires.
(There is in effect no such thing as a fully automated Lithium battery charger! JL)
4 Use a safe surface to charge your batteries on so that if they burst into flame, no damage will occur. Vented fire safes, pyrex dishes with sand in the bottom, fireplaces are all good options.
5 Do Not charge at more than 1C.
6 If a cell balloons while charging DO NOT puncture the cell while it is still hot! Put the cell/pack in salt water and wait until it has cooled. Once it is cool gently puncture the pack's outer casing and put it back in the salt water. After this, the cell is safe to throw in the garbage.
7 VERY IMPORTANT — If you crash with your lithium cells they may be damaged in such a way that they are shorted inside. The cells may look just fine. If you crash in ANY way carefully remove the battery pack from the airplane and watch it carefully for at least the next 20 min. Several fires have been caused by damaged cells being thrown in the car and then the cells catch fire later and burns the car completly.
8 Charge your batteries in a open, ventilated area. If a battery does rupture or explode, hazardous fumes and material will spew from the battery.
9 Keep a bucket of sand nearby when you are flying or charging batteries. This is a cost effective way to extinguish fires. This is very cheap and absolutly necessary.
10 Realize that these batteries are dangerous. Do not think to yourself that "It won't happen to me" — as soon as you do that it will happen to you and you'll be trying to rescue your kids from your burning house or car.
General usage tips
1 Lithium batteries don't work well in cold air. If you are flying in the winter, keep the batteries in your car until you're ready — this will ensure best performance.
2 Don't let the batteries overheat. Try to keep them under 80°C. This will prolong your battery life.
3 Don't push the batteries past their rated maximum C rating. This will damage the battery and the apparent capacity of the batteries will drop. If, when you recharge you are only putting 1/2 to 3/4 of the rated capacity back into the batteries, you are probably pushing them too hard.
4 Monitor the voltage of individual cells. Keeping all cells in the pack at exactly the same voltage is important for both the safety and long life of your batteries.
5 If you're building your own cells then put spacing between each cell in the pack to help cooling of the pack. This is most important when building packs larger than two cells.
6 Some Li-Poly cells use aluminum tabs that you must solder leads to. Normal soldering procedures will not work on aluminum. You'll need to purchase aluminum soldering paste. The vendor where you purchased your aluminum tab cells should stock this paste.
Happy Flying!!
Brian
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#9 Useril este offline   albastru 

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Postat 02 September 2006 - 11:01 AM

Li-Ion are 3,6 volti pe celula, iar Li-Po are 3,7 volti pe celula.
Deci este corect ce s-a descoperit in imprimanta.

Albastru
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#10 Useril este offline   vlad1 

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Postat 02 September 2006 - 06:01 PM

Valorile 3.6 si 3.7 sunt valori statistice (adica o referinta de calcul strict pe hirtie). In realitate, tensiunea la borne variza, 2.8 ..... 4.1 pentru Li-ion si 2.8......4.2 pentru LiPo (valori limita repetitive admise si tolerate), in functie de gradul de incarcare, sarcina, temperatura ... etc.

A spune ca are 3,6 V e ca si cum spui ca la masina sunt 12V (va rog sa nu ma credeti, masurati).
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#11 Useril este offline   Cirip 

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Postat 02 September 2006 - 10:34 PM

Iata si foaia de catalog oferita de producator a unei baterii LiIon. Aveti graficele cu evolutia tensiunii pe baterie in functie de starea de incarcare.
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/batter..._CGR18650AF.pdf
Cirip
Teorie este atunci cand stii totul, dar nu merge nimic.
Practica este cand toate merg, dar nu stii de ce.
Montajele mele imbina teoria cu practica: nu merge nimic si nu stiu de ce.
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#12 Useril este offline   Alex Baccilu 

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Postat 03 September 2006 - 09:12 AM

Va multumesc, am invatat multe din tot ce ati postat.
hep-hep-hep
(offtopic...inca negru dupa 2-2-ul bulgarilor :D )
si ca sa fie ziua cum trebuie, una dintre celule cred ca s-a dus, am 0.00 Volti pe ea :D
Culmea e ca celelate doua sunt pline-pline iar incarcarea lor se face ok, se incarca, ledul se stinge, ca pe vremuri. Dar cea de-a treia a capotat.
Fotbal+Li-ion sometimes mix. :)
Boardgame is the future!
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#13 Useril este offline   Cirip 

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Postat 03 September 2006 - 06:54 PM

Citeaza

una dintre celule cred ca s-a dus, am 0.00 Volti pe ea

Legenda spune ca ar putea fi readusa la viata. Te intereseaza subiectul?
Cirip
Teorie este atunci cand stii totul, dar nu merge nimic.
Practica este cand toate merg, dar nu stii de ce.
Montajele mele imbina teoria cu practica: nu merge nimic si nu stiu de ce.
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#14 Useril este offline   Alex Baccilu 

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Postat 03 September 2006 - 11:02 PM

mananci calule ovaz???
sunt ochi si urechi, te rog!
Boardgame is the future!
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#15 Useril este offline   Cirip 

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Postat 04 September 2006 - 03:40 AM

OK. Cica se ia numai elementul cu buba, adica se leaga fire numai la el si se aplica printr-o rezistenta un curentel de maxim 100mA (eu am facut cu 50mA la element de 1800mAh). Se masoara permanent tensiunea pe elementul supus incarcarii. Daca elementul poate fi resuscitat, tensiunea va creste incet pana va ajunge la 3V. Continua incarcarea prin rezistenta pana cand ajungi la 3.6V. Deconecteaza incarcarea si masoara in gol. Ar trebui sa poti aduce toate elementele la aceeasi tensiune in gol. Cand toate au in jurul a 3.6V, baga tot blocul la incarcat in incarcatorul imprimantei. Masoara tensiunile individuale imediat dupa incarcare, lasa pacul deoparte si mai masoara si a doua zi. Daca tensiunile se mentin, atunci e f probabil ca ai salvat pacul. Daca nu... asta e. Si spune si pe forum ce a iesit.

Bafta!
Cirip
Teorie este atunci cand stii totul, dar nu merge nimic.
Practica este cand toate merg, dar nu stii de ce.
Montajele mele imbina teoria cu practica: nu merge nimic si nu stiu de ce.
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#16 Useril este offline   Alex Baccilu 

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Postat 04 September 2006 - 09:32 AM

Multumesc.
Incep experimentul ca un mic myth buster ce sunt :D

Lista materiale:
- un alimentator pentru incarcat telefon mobil generatie veche care-mi da ~9V cc.
- un rezistor de 150 ohmi la un sfert de watt.
- doua aparate de masura, unul sta tot timpul in circuit si supravegheaza miliamperii, altul ca sa masor tensiunea (multumesc lui wingless pentru idee, din fericire am doua aparate, nu stiu ce o sa faca cineva care are doar unul, e bine sa intrerupi incarcarea pentru masuratori? :) )
- elementul de Li-Ion declarat bushit si care, conform legendei transmise de Cirip, se spune ca poate fi inviat.

Am pus totul in priza. Curent de incarcare: 56 mA. Masor tensiunea pe element la 1 minut dupa start si imi spune ca are 0.19 V...pare sa creasca, dupa 2 minute avea 0.2 V. Revenim imediat dupa reclama.

Aceasta postare a fost editata de Alex Baccilu: 04 September 2006 - 09:34 AM

Boardgame is the future!
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#17 Useril este offline   Alex Baccilu 

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Postat 04 September 2006 - 10:18 AM

Bine ati revenit la mini-myth buster. :)

Cam nasol, dupa fix o ora de la pornirea incarcarii, tensiunea pe element sta tot la 0.2 V. Acum nu stiu daca masuratoarea trebuie facuta in timpul incarcarii sau scos elementul din circuit. In ritmul asta cred ca-mi creste barba. Curentul de incarcare nu a variat. Revin cu amanunte dupa inca o ora.
Boardgame is the future!
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#18 Useril este offline   Cirip 

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Postat 04 September 2006 - 06:38 PM

Poti sa masori tensiunea pe element in timpul incarcarii.
Micsoreaza rezistenta in asa fel incat crt. sa creasca la aprox. 100mA. Daca tot nu creste tensiunea progresiv, inseamna ca elementul poate fi declarat dus pe apa sambetei. Probabil ca a stat prea mult cu tensiune mica pe el si s-au produs modificari ireversibile.
Cirip

Aceasta postare a fost editata de Cirip: 04 September 2006 - 06:43 PM

Teorie este atunci cand stii totul, dar nu merge nimic.
Practica este cand toate merg, dar nu stii de ce.
Montajele mele imbina teoria cu practica: nu merge nimic si nu stiu de ce.
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#19 Useril este offline   Alex Baccilu 

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Postat 05 September 2006 - 08:29 AM

Busted! Cel putin in cazul elementului asta. Dupa inca 3 ore aceeasi tensiune pe borne. Am deconectat si ce masuram eu 0.2 V era de fapt tensiunea de incarcare, in el nu mai e viata deloc, mort de mort. Ciudata tehnologie liion asta.
Asta nu inseamna ca daca n-a mers la mine la altii nu s-ar putea sa mearga.
Experimentul a fost interesant, multumesc tuturor pentru idei si sfaturi.
Cirip, hai sa facem o rubrica in specific RHC si sa demolam/confirmam mituri, ce zici? :rolleyes:

Aceasta postare a fost editata de Alex Baccilu: 05 September 2006 - 08:30 AM

Boardgame is the future!
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#20 Useril este offline   Cirip 

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Postat 05 September 2006 - 04:19 PM

He he... Multumesc ptr oferta, dar timpul nu-mi permite. Ce pot face este sa povestesc pe-aici ce experiente am facut, care a mers si care nu, dar cam atat.

Intr-adevar, elementul ala pare ca a dat coltul. Asta e. Probabil ca a stat f mult cu tensiune mica pe el.

Aterizari line!
Cirip
Teorie este atunci cand stii totul, dar nu merge nimic.
Practica este cand toate merg, dar nu stii de ce.
Montajele mele imbina teoria cu practica: nu merge nimic si nu stiu de ce.
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