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Campionat National F4C "machete" Mai putin de doua luni!

#1 Useril este offline   Jimmy 

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Postat 02 August 2006 - 05:33 PM

Salut !
Pasionati de machete si nu numai!!!!
Mai sunt aproximativ doua luni pana la desfasurarea camp. de machete si acro!
Intereseaza pe cineva subiectul?


JIMMY
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#2 Useril este offline   Valteras 

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Postat 03 August 2006 - 07:11 AM

Jimmy, la 2 Aug 2006, 17:33, a spus:

Intereseaza pe cineva subiectul?

Maxim...
Orice pas inainte e un shut in fund!
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#3 Useril este offline   radian 

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Postat 03 August 2006 - 07:14 AM

si de unde gasim detalii?
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#4 Useril este offline   Jimmy 

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Postat 21 August 2006 - 07:22 PM

Buna intrebarea...ramane de dat raspunsul...
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#5 Useril este offline   Valteras 

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Postat 23 August 2006 - 07:40 AM

Jimmy, la 2 Aug 2006, 17:33, a spus:

Mai sunt aproximativ doua luni pana la desfasurarea camp. de machete si acro!

Pana la urma, cand? unde?...
Orice pas inainte e un shut in fund!
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#6 Useril este offline   Jimmy 

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Postat 24 August 2006 - 07:40 PM

.....cam o Luna pana la Campionat si nimic?
Speram sa se porneasca ceva....discutii

Sau asteptam Trecerea Campionatului?????????

Macar ceva concret despre REGUlamenT....MIORITIC sau de alt fel...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Data - in jurul lui 24-09-06...dupa cate stiu ( comuna cu ACROBATIA )
Locatia - Strejnicu Ploiesti....dupa cate stiu

Poate cei de mai aproape...afla lucruri mai sigure despre cand si unde.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Personal NU mai vreau sa trec prin dilemele din 2005, legate de CoNcurSul Machetistilor.
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#7 Useril este offline   Jimmy 

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Postat 06 September 2006 - 01:57 PM

HELLO!
Mai sunt 3 (trei ) saptamani....cel putin teoretic

E cineva cu organizarea?

Sau ramane balta...
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#8 Useril este offline   Jimmy 

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Postat 06 September 2006 - 02:00 PM

Valteras???
Pitts??????
Silviu66???
??????????
??????????

chiar nimeni nu stie nimic?????
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#9 Useril este offline   Jimmy 

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Postat 06 September 2006 - 02:04 PM

HMMMMM
La subiectul despre acrobatie in 4septembrie se studia regulamentul....tot e ceva

( de l-ar studia toti ce si-au propus sa participe )
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#10 Useril este offline   SILVIU66 

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Postat 06 September 2006 - 03:34 PM

22-24 sept Strejnic,la fel ca anul trecut.
e singura info pe care am reusit sa o obtin.
pt info suplimentare accesati saitul frmd.
tel federatiei: 316.24.54
sau mailul secretarului general mzanciu@modelism.mcit.ro
flying is my life...
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#11 Useril este offline   Jimmy 

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Postat 06 September 2006 - 03:44 PM

Balsoy!
Tot e ceva decat pauza-lipsa-pauza

Multumiri de info!

----------------------------------------

Incerc un mail la secret. Zanciu
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#12 Useril este offline   pitts 

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Postat 13 September 2006 - 10:41 AM

Detalii despre arbitrajul la stand (extrase din regulamentul FAI)

Cerinte minime pentru acordarea punctelor pentru stand

FOTOGRAFII: cel putin 3 fotografii, dintre care cel putin una care sa reprezinte modelul reprodus de macheta. Toate cele trei fotografii trebuie sa infatiseze avionul real in intregime, preferabil din mai multe pozitii.

DESENE: cel putin 3 vederi (sus, lateral, fata), executate la aceeasi scara, cu anvergura de min. 250mm si max. 500mm. Desenele trebuiesc sa fie din sursa autorizata (publicatii recunoscute, desene oficiale) sau desene executate de constructorul machetei, dar autentificate de catre producatorul avionului real, de catre autoritatea aeronautica nationala, de comisia nationala de specialitate, etc.

CULOARE: se judeca dupa fotografiile color prezentate in documentatie, provenind din surse autorizate (vezi documentatiile din seria “Profile”)

VITEZA: viteza maxima a avionului real se va specifica atat pe fisa de arbitraj la stand, cat si pe cea de arbitraj in zbor.

DECLARATIA CONCURENTULUI va cuprinde lista completa a componentelor machetei care NU au fost executate de catre concurent; in cazul constatarii unor inexactitati in aceasta declaratie, concurentul va fi descalificat fara drept de apel.

PUNCTELE ACORDATE LA STAND CONTEAZA PENTRU SCORUL FINAL NUMAI DUPA EFECTUAREA INTAIULUI ZBOR OFICIAL.

In cazul unei documentatii incomplete:

1. Mai putin de 3 fotografii ale prototipului, infatisand avionul INTREG:
- ZERO puncte pentru acuratetea scarii;
- Depunctare pentru realism;
- Depunctare pentru maiestria executiei;
- Depunctarea pentru detalii la scara;

2. Lipsa desenelor autorizate:
- ZERO puncte pentru acuratetea scarii;

3. Lipsa fotografiei subiectului reprodus:
- ZERO puncte pentru realism;

4. Documentatia color incompleta (evidenta culoare lateral, extrados, intrados)
- ZERO puncte culoare

ARBITRII DE STAND VOR JUDECA MODELUL NUMAI DUPA DOCUMENTATIA PREZENTATA.
No brain, no headache.....
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#13 Useril este offline   MUGUREL. 

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Postat 13 September 2006 - 11:35 AM

Salutare!

URA avem un regulament! Traiasca F4C!
Sa ne vedem sanatosi la Strajnic.
Cu stima!
MUGUREL!
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#14 Useril este offline   pitts 

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Postat 13 September 2006 - 12:19 PM

MUGUREL., la 13 Sep 2006, 11:35, a spus:

URA avem un regulament! Traiasca F4C!

...ati avut si anul trecut!......da' mai mare a fost ambitzul, decat judecata la rece!.....
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#15 Useril este offline   Jimmy 

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Postat 13 September 2006 - 03:50 PM

Salut!

Specificatii binevenite,probabil pentru toata lumea doritoare de a participa la concursul de machete.

Personal mai am ceva nelamuriri legate de :

1. detalii - exista distanta mai mica de 5m. de observare a acestora;se puncteaza?

2. va exista un tabel AFISAT cu concurentii si PUNCTAJUL OBTINUT - DUPA fiecare proba respectiv TERMINAREA CONCURSULUI ?

3. exista echivalenta intre :
a). ARF / constructor firma > declaratie concurent
:huh:. terta persoana / constructor > declaratie concurent
mai explicit ,poate concura o persoana care NU ESTE constuctorul / pilotul modelului inscris in concurs?
sunt admise ambele variante, sau niciuna?

5. vor fi prezentate TOATE modelele IMPREUNA inaintea probei de stand pt. o avaluare generala intr-un spatiu amenajat ?

6. arbitrajul la stand se face cu, sau fara prezenta celorlalti concurenti? / avand in vedere ca arbitrajul la zbor este PUBLIC
7. este OBLIGATORIE acordare de diplome si medalii in cazul in care concurentii prezenti NU obtin un standard minim cerut de FRMD ?

cu stima JIMMY
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#16 Useril este offline   MUGUREL. 

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Postat 13 September 2006 - 05:46 PM

Salutare!
Intradevar anul trecut am avut un regulament FAI dar numai noi, adica eu si JIMMY. Ceilalti au avut altul , care? Nu mai conteaza!
Stima!
MUGUREL.
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#17 Useril este offline   pitts 

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Postat 13 September 2006 - 07:52 PM

Arbitrajul la stand si cel de zbor NU ESTE PUBLIC!..cu alte cuvinte, arbitrii nu trebuie sa puna note in vazul (si cu aprobarea ) multimii...
5 m=DA
Pilot=constructor (in caz de declaratie mincinoasa>descalificare
In rest, ceea ce a fost PRINCIPAL de explicat ref. la stand s-a explicat!
Mugurel&Jimmy: va plangeti de mila inainte sa participati! Se pare ca sunteti singurii machetisti din Romania; daca ar fi asa, concursul ar fi foarte simplu, iar voi doi ati fi siguri de locul 1 si 2, pe care sa le impartiti intre voi!
Ma faceti sa nu mai dau nici un anunt pe acest forum privat (la care personal tin FOARTE MULT), dar pe care FRModelism NU ESTE OBLIGATA sa dea vreo explicatie!
Jimmy: ti-am trimis regulamentul 2006 (esti singurul care mi l-a cerut) . Citeste acolo si fii multumit ca se vor aplica DOAR ANUMITE prevederi de acolo; altminteri, in starea in care suntem, nu armai fi CN de machete; fii multumit cu ce avem si spera la mai bine!
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#18 Useril este offline   MUGUREL. 

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Postat 13 September 2006 - 09:54 PM

OK! Pace!
Nu asta e scopul nostru, sa ne impartim 1si2 intre noi! Altceva dorim , sa ajungem machetisti adevarati, nu altceva, sa putem face modele cu adevarat competitive . Cele de pana acum sunt pe departe ce ne dorim sa lucram. Poate ca in cativa ani (2-3)sa realizam ceva cu care sa ne mandrim cu adevarat si in acelasi timp sa zburam de 2 ori mai bine ca pana acum!
Nu vrem ca acest regulament sa ingradeasca pe cineva ci numai sa impuna un standard inalt. Si acest lucru e necesar sa se faca treptat! Asta e tot!

Multumesc pentru intelegere!
Cu stima!
Popa Mugurel
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#19 Useril este offline   Jimmy 

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Postat 15 September 2006 - 06:46 AM

Salut!

Nu vad o problema asa de mare in stabilirea unor puncte de vedere privitor la regulile ce urmeaza a fi aplicate INAINTE DE CONCURS ( mai ales ca nu s-au specificat clar amendamentele la regulamentul FAI / iar obinerea unui consens asupra celui stabilit de FRMD pare sa produca o disputa in loc sa lamureasca pe cei intradevar dornici de a fi in legalitate si in cunostinta de cauza ).

De asemenea secretizarea jurizarii personal nu cred ca vine in ajutorul nimanui......??? Personal nu m-ar deranja ca la proba de stand sa fie de fata si ceilalti concurenti , asta insemnand doar prezenta fizica, fara vreo implicare in deciziile arbitrilor.

La nivelul la care se afla modelismul scale R/C in Romania ( cel putin ca numar ) ,cred ca o abordare "la vedere" ar incuraja mai mult pe actualii si eventual viitorii competitori. La urma urmei nu chiar toti vor o colectie de titluri in vitrina de acasa ( si pentru acestea nu chiar toti, imping dorinta de afirmre pana la limita bunului simt ).

Daca Mugurel si Jimmy "comenteaza" o fac nu pentru ca se cred singurii machetisti ci pentru ca vor sa vada si in Romania natala un National de machete asemanator cu cele " de dincolo " .... e prea mult?

Din discutiile avute cu colegi de pe alte forumuri "de dincolo" problemele machetistilor sunt cam universale....ARF - RTF versus scratchbuild.
Singurele diferente inter EI si Noi sunt numarul celor inscrisi la concurs si bunul simt (din pacate).
Incurajarea potentialilor competitori machetisti prin acceptarea si chiar promovarea modelelor construite de firme ,fara un aport vizibil in constructie apropie periculos de mult F4C de F3B , machetele devenind un fel de anexa a acrobatiei, locul unde cei ce nu pot obtine rezultatele asteptate ca acrobati ," bat " pe cei ce-si pierd vremea construind si neavand abilitati deosebite de pilot ( chiar putin oameni pot face bine doua lucruri in acelasi timp: sa construiasca si sa-si perfectioneze pilotajul....probabil acestia ajung campioni europeni si mondiali ).

Incercati sa faceti o comperetie mica,mica intre fotbal ca sport ,si modelism!
Intr-un campionat orasanesc/satesc arbitrii , daca ati observat poarta ECUSON FIFA - probabil pentru ca au vreo legatura ( nu prea ma pricep la fotbal ) cu FIFA>>>
arbitreaza bine/rau corect/incorect dar nu am auzit pe nici unul sa spuna ca el arbitreaza dupa cheful propriu, regulamentul este acelasi indiferent in ce liga, oras ,tara, etc. SI unde mai pui ca sunt diferente de "MIZA".

Cu stima

JIMMY
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#20 Useril este offline   Jimmy 

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Postat 15 September 2006 - 07:00 AM

Apropos de regulament FAI
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
acesta a fost modificat in 2004! si mentioneaza ca NU se vor mai face modificari pana in 2008 cu aplicare din 2009. Practic e acelasi si in 2006.
din 2003 tot studiez regulamentul FAI, dar probabil ramane pentru " uz intern".
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#21 Useril este offline   Jimmy 

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Postat 15 September 2006 - 07:12 AM

Pana la concurs voi prezenta si parerea unor oameni contactati de mine ( din octombrie 2005 si pana in prezent ), care toti au ceva in comun cu machetele,machetistii si concursurile acestora, de la cei foarte importanti si in tema, la simpli modelisti din lumea larga.

Voi ncerca sa comentez cat mai putin raspunsurile acestora, lasandu-va pe voi, cei interesati de acest subiect ,sa trageti concluziile ( cate se pot trage ).

Hai pa!
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#22 Useril este offline   Jimmy 

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Postat 15 September 2006 - 03:37 PM

Salut din nou!

Unul si cred eu singurul care este cel mai masura de a da raspunsuri oficiale este,
Narve L.Jensen , omul de la FAI ce si-a pus semnatura pe Regulamentul FAI sectiunea
machete.
Iata intrebarile ce i le-am pus dupa discutiile aprinse din 2005, de dupa concursul national:

1. may or may not an ARF or RTF model compete at F4C class(according
to modellers declaration about being the constructor of the modell)?.

2.exist a fixed distance for judging at static display(details of
instrument panel for example)?.

3.If an ARF is permitted, how do the competitor complete his
declaration about parts of model not made by him?

4.As a member of FAI, the Romanian Modelling Federation (as
example),may not ,or must organize National events according to FAI
rules?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. Manea
With reference to the letter forwarded to me and the Scale Subcomitee from the FAI
office,I can inform you of the decision made when your original letter arrived.
I decided to let our Romanian member of the Scale Subcommittee answer your letter so
as to keep the correspondence inside Romania,as I understand you were not satisfied
with his answer and I regret that i probably am unable to give you another answer either.
To take your questions one at a time,here are my answers:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
aici ar trebui sa fac mentiunea, ca nici dupa cea de-a doua scrisoare adresata FAI, nu am
primit nici un raspuns via FRMD! ( poate mici excese de limbaj ).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1)Since Scale model competitions require the competitor to sign a declaration of being
the builder of the model,and list all parts of the model not made by him,there is little
use in entering an ARF or RTF model as these models will almost not get any static points
since no part of the model or decoration(markings or letters)of the model was made by the
competitor himself.But there is nothing in the rules specific to prevent one from entering
the competition,the only points he will get, is for the flying part of the contest and nobody
will try to do this in an international competition.I know several countries that have made
this a national rule to prevent people from entering such models in F4C class on local
contests,this is done in the spirit of the rules and is allowed under the FAI/CIAM rules to
be modified for use nationally in different countries.And they have other simplier classes
to cater for these models that are expected to be used by newcomers.

2)The distance for judging a F4C model in the three view planes is a minimum distance of 5
meters, but for the judging of details and craftsmanship the only requirement is that the
judges are not allowed to touch the model,but they can go as close to the model as they like.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dupa cum tin minte, anul trecut au existat discutii legate de distanta de la care se face observarea
modelului in jurizarea detaliilor
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3)I think this question of the declaration is answered in point number one.

4)As any member of the FAI, the Romanian Federation can make their own Scale rules and or
amend the FAI rules to suit their own purpose.But if they invite to a F4C contest,they either
have to state which rules they will use or to use the FAI rules as they are printed from the
FAI.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dupa cum s-a putut observa pana acum au trebuit destul de multe insistente, pentru a se obtine,
o varianta oficiala de regulament din partea FRMD.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope this will answer your questions and I would like to add that if you are serious about
Scale modelling, the only way to be sure about the rules is to use the original version in
English as that is the one that rules all translations.
Translations can very often contain small discrepancies and these might give problems for
international competitions and is usually made to help the beginners to understand.

Yours sincerely



Narve L.Jensen
Chairman of the Scale Subcommittee
Of the CIAM/FAI

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mentionez ca NU am omis si NU am adaugat nimic din continutul scrisorii primite dupa destul de multe
insistente direct de la secretariatul FAI.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Acesta a fost raspunsul OFICIAL primit din partea FAI.


Cu stima


JIMMY
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#23 Useril este offline   Jimmy 

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Postat 15 September 2006 - 04:02 PM

===============================

in perioada cand asteptam un raspuns de la FAI, l-am contactat pe Dl. Conu , oficialitate a FRMD pt. a obtine si din partea FRMD ( eventual parerea personala ) raspunsuri la aceleasi intrebari puse FAI legate de ARF-uri, dist. de jurizare la stand,s.c.l.

incerc sa rezum raspunsul Dlui. Conu: raspunsul la intrebari l-am aflat la concursul din 2005 ??? sau intr-o discutie avuta mai de curand:

" nu ne intereseaza regulamentul fai, decat in masura in care-l respectam, gradat, in timp; IAR PE FAI NU-L INTERESEAZA REGULAMENTUL NOSTRU NATIONAL!!!!"

la intrebarea mea: o sa avem regulament FRMD?
Dl. Conu Marius raspunde: daca-l facetzi (comisia de aeromodele), o sa-l avetzi!....numai de voi depinde!.....noi coordonam
..... clubul vostru!...care trebuie sa numeasca candidati pentru comisia federala de aeromodele....si care trebuie sa-i plateasca deplasarea la sedinte!!!...si pe care trebuie sa-l sustina la vot (lobby) in adunarea generala..... cateva detalii-linii "directoare" am sa postez pana la concurs....
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probabil ca NU este un punct de vedere oficial..........

mentionez ca NU am adaugat nimic de la mine


Cu stima

JIMMY
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#24 Useril este offline   Jimmy 

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Postat 15 September 2006 - 04:45 PM

Dupa raspunsurile oamenilor direct implicati in coordonarea activitatii competitionale , urmeaza pareri personale ale unor colegi de forum ( majoritatea americani ) privitor la nivelul competitional la care se afla modelismul R/C scale, pe la ei si cam cu ce probleme se comfrunta.


Iata ce zice ED de pe forumul RC Scale builder:

Hello Jimmy

Interesting observation and not too far off from the truth with respect to what's
recently become a flying contest instead of an assessment of replication skills.
Sound like strong words, they are and most of the time the truth is really hard to
accept.

Compromise was made for the sake of participant numbers. Its not anyone's
fault at all. It is everyone's fault for not speaking up and asking things be set
straight again. What's straight again?

How about mandating a specific % of the airframe must be pilot constructed from
either man made composites or natural materials, commonly known as wood?

To say finishing is construction is an insult to competitive flying scale modeling.
Construction is engineering, fabricating, assembling and finishing a replica of a
man carrying, heavier than air, self propelled fixed wing aircraft.

Want more pilots at your contest? Give them reasons for attending. Assemble a
core of experienced scale modelers. Accomplished pilots in your area, builders
with modeling skills to pass along. Mentors for how-to and skills assessment.

As it appears in the AMA Comp Guide. This is as weak
as it ever has been. In FAI you have to provide a list of
the items not constructed by the builder/pilot.
__________________
Ed

"Scale Aero"
RCSB
============================================================================


sau canadianul Nigel de pe RC Universe:



Dear friend

Speaking as a person who was brought up scratch building, free flight and control line models prior to becoming involved in R/C, I think that the builder of model rule has been stretched so far out of shape that it is just laughable. This is but one of the reasons that I don't fly in competition. When someone can beat me because he has more money than me, I give up....period. Is competition fair? Nope!

Firstly, ARF's have no place in scale competition. Am I worried that an ARF will beat out a well built scale model? No, it's just that I don't see the point of entering one in the first place. Where is the pride in entering something you didn't even build? Not that I think ARF's are bad, in fact they help to support the industry in a big way. If a guy wins an aerobatic contest with an arf, well, that is after all mostly a pilot proficiency execise. What I don't get is how anyone can derive pleasure from winning a scale competition with either an ARF or a model that they bought from a good builder. Second, I have witnessed first hand as a flight line judge at the Canadian nationals, a scale contestant who entered and competed with a model that I know for a fact he did not build. It was built by the judge sitting right next to me! Unless it's team scale, it seems a pretty empty victory, winning a scale conest with a model you didn't build.

While scale competition may very well hone the skills of the participants, I don't see how you can regulate to what degree a kit is pre-fabbed and how to ensure a level playing field.

Don't get me wrong, if scale competition turns your crank, then jump right in!

For me, it's more about challenging yourself.

I was pleased when team scale appeared on the scene because it allowed for great builders and great fliers to team up on a level playing field.

I know that some scale purists look down their nose at say IMAA fly-ins, but the thing I like about non-competative scale fly-ins is that a lot more people show up, participate, and have a good time with each other.

When I go to a custom motorcycle get together, do I want to talk to the drug dealer that paid $100,000 for his bike? Hell no, I want to take to the talented individual who built it for him! I really don't care if he knows how to ride it....so what? Neither am I impressed with him when he wins "Best of show".

It's kind of like the 51% rule that the FAA has mandated for full size kit planes. The registered builder has to prove that he actually built at least 51% of his homebuilt aircraft in order for it to be considered a homebuilt. We all know that that is totally subjective, and almost impossible to enforce. Who did the registered builder pay to do most of the work? He'll never tell, I can assure you.

For example, a fellow might not be much of a builder, but a very good painter. So, he pays someone else to build a model for him, then puts a beautiful paint job on it. Nothing wrong with that, as he realizes his limitations and acts accordingly. I wouldn't critisize him at all. He is simply enjoying the hobby in his own way as we all do. I just have an issue when he enters a competition with it ....keeping the BOM in mind.

To me, with the highly pre-fabbed models now available, it clearly makes the BOM line very fuzzy and begs the question, "who deserves to win?" Where do you draw the line? I don't think you can draw a line to suit everyone.

Personally, I have never bought into "competition being a good thing" on a personal level. I think that it can very easily breed contempt. How do you make a level playing field? I don't think you ever can.

Me? I'm quite happy challenging myself to do better...without competition with anyone else. That is enough for me.




Cheers, Nigel



__________________
Nigel Tarvin
Chilliwack, B.C.
I.M.A.A. 20375
MAAC 6949
============================================================================

mmmmm parca e un alt JIMMY/MUGUREL ce "comenteaza"


sau Jeff tot de pe RC Universe:


Hi Manea

Several years ago AMA had included a "What I did not build myself" requirement in the BOM statement - quite a few people got upset at that and it was changed again to more or less what it is now.

Before that, when Byron kits came on the market there was an uproar over "prefab" models. And again the BOM definition was changed to near what it is now.

Now ARF and ARC models are common, and the BOM definition will change again.

In any competiton, as you are aware, someone will take advantage or try to sneak something, just to win. When I was in archery, we called them sandbaggers. I guess they will always be with us, people that need to adorn their walls or mantles with "unearned" awards. I sure don't have any solutions, I just enjoy competing and Fly-ins where I meet great people like yourself.

My own personal point of view, and my opinion is not that of USSMA or AMA, I think allowing ARFs or ARCs into competition with built-up models (including the composite glass models) is a slap in the face to the builders. That is probably close to how designers feel when forced to compete with kit-built or plan-built models.

Someone has to define what an ARC or ARF is exactly!

__________________
Jeff USSMA 077 / AMA 5108
Current Projects:
U/C Bates 84" F2A-2
U/C 42" "flat" Shinden electric
U/C TDM Models I-16 Rata

============================================================================
BOM este declaratia ce o dau americanii legata de faptul ca au sau nu au componente fabricate de ei in componenta modelului ,sinonimul din declaratia FAI, dar mai putin detaliata.
============================================================================

si in final BoB;

So, for sake of discussion, let's say next year that Skyshark or TF or ? comes out with an ARF/ARC that is dead on in matching a 3-view in a wood built kit. How would that fit? It seems that what is being said is that as long as something has to be changed that it fits the builder of the model rule? Also, how is it different then having another modeler build the frame ready for covering and enter it in a class that has a BOM rule? There doesn't seem to be any difference other than a manufacturer vs modeler as the base builder.

Then if the difference is in that there is still some work to do, the composite kits (while they are very nice and I like them very much) seem to make it much easier.

I agree that it is clear as mud. I also agree that it is very difficult to draw the line as to what would be in and out.

I guess in the end, it comes down to what the modeler is attempting to get from their involvement in the competition aspect of the hobby to determine what he/she is willing to do to win.



__________________
Bob Houin
Spring Grove, IL

============================================================================
as sublinia ULTIMUL aliniat, legat de bunul simt la inscrierea intr-o competitie de machete ,mentionat de mine mai inainte.


Cam atat!


Cu stima

JIMMY
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#25 Useril este offline   pitts 

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Postat 15 September 2006 - 08:07 PM

Jimmy, la 15 Sep 2006, 15:37, a spus:

            Dear Mr. Manea
With reference to the letter forwarded to me and the Scale Subcomitee from the FAI
office,I can inform you of the decision made when your original letter arrived.
I decided to let our Romanian member of the Scale Subcommittee answer your letter so
as to keep the correspondence inside Romania,as I understand you were not satisfied
with his answer and I regret that i probably am unable to give you another answer either.


Raspunsul lui Narve Jensen, F4S/C Chairman:

1 "....I decided to let our Romanian member of the Scale Subcommittee answer your letter so
as to keep the correspondence inside Romania...."

2 "....as I understand you were not satisfied
with his answer and I regret that i probably am unable to give you another answer either."
(INTELEG CA NU ESTI SATISFACUT CU RASPUNSUL LUI SI REGRET PENTRU FAPTUL CA PROBABIL CA NICI EU NU SUNT IN STARE SA ITI DAU ALT RASPUNS)

DECI NICI EL NU-TI POATE DA UN ALT RASPUNS DECAT RASPUNSUL MEU!!
TU ai inteles ceva din ce a spus omul ala?,...In mod normal, ar trebui sa ma opresc aici, dar hai sa continuam!
(se pare ca masochismul se vindeca foarte greu, sau deloc!!!)

Este adevarat ca am zis:
"" nu ne intereseaza regulamentul fai, decat in masura in care-l respectam, gradat, in timp; IAR PE FAI NU-L INTERESEAZA REGULAMENTUL NOSTRU NATIONAL!!!!"

Inca nu te-ai prins ca regulamentul FAI (pe care t- l-am expediat de curand) este NUMAI PENTRU MONDIALE SI CONTINENTALE???????....normal ca pe FAI nu-l intereseaza regulamentul nostru! (VEZI INCA ODATA AL DOILEA CITAT DIN NARVE JENSEN-mai sus)

Deci, decat in masura in care-l respectam!!! GRADAT, IN TIMP!!!
CATE MACHETE CONSTRUITE DUPA STANDARDE FAI AI VAZUT TU ANUL TRECUT LA STREJNIC? DACA au fost 4, cine crezi tu ca organizeaza un campionat national pentru 4 concurenti???


Mesajul de mai jos E TRUNCHIAT!!!
"daca-l facetzi (comisia de aeromodele), o sa-l avetzi!....numai de voi depinde!.....noi coordonam
..... clubul vostru!...care trebuie sa numeasca candidati pentru comisia federala de aeromodele....si care trebuie sa-i plateasca deplasarea la sedinte!!!...si pe care trebuie sa-l sustina la vot (lobby) in adunarea generala..... cateva detalii-linii "directoare" am sa postez pana la concurs...."

...dar contine esenta: COMISIA DE AEROMODELE face si aproba regulamentele nationale, nu subsemnatul, asa ca nu vad de ce te tot iei de mine!....pentru "rezultatele" de anul trecut?.....ti-o spun in particular, pe un site particular: PUTEA SA FIE SI MAI RAU!!!!

Cat priveste parerea lui "BOB< NIGEL< JEFF si altii..iti pot da si eu parerea lui Petrica, Gigel, Nelutzu, Mirel si chiar parerea lui Alinutza!....dar nu cred ca intereseaza pe nimeni......in ambele sensuri.
Cat priveste postatul pe RCScalebuilder, ...........cred ca pentru tine este o trambulina perfecta pentru competitiile de machete din Top Gun!....persevereaza, poate te trezesti cu vreo sponsorizare din partea SUA&Canada&etc, care abia asteapta sa vada cum se face un Me109 sau un P-47.

In final, in toata smiorcaiala ta nu vad decat un (inutil si nereusit ) atac la persoana, care poate acum 15 ani m-ar fi miscat pana la lacrimi, dar care acum nu ma face sa ma intreb: tot am atata de lucru la servici, de ce dracu imi pierd vremea cu trasnai din astea????...da uite ca o fac.......

Daca vrei raspuns de la federatie, adreseaza-te comisiei de aeromodele, oficial, pe adresa oficiala, iara nu pe un site public unde toti pot scrie (aproape) orice....in limitele logicului sia bunului simt!

In ceea ce priveste constructia de machere zburatoare controlateprin radio, ITI UREZ SUCCES!

Amical,
Marius Conu




[U] :)

Aceasta postare a fost editata de pitts: 15 September 2006 - 08:48 PM

No brain, no headache.....
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#26 Useril este offline   Jimmy 

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Postat 16 September 2006 - 10:31 PM

Stimati colegi de forum,
D-le Pitts,am initiat acest subiect pe forumul RHC,adresandu-ma TUTUROR.
Nu cred ca este vina mea ca in afara de PITTS,JIMMY si MUGUREL, nu participa la discutii si alti colegi de forum.Acum un an ,dupa concursul de acro si machete, daca va ajuta memoria ,au fost destul de multi participanti la dezbaterea problemelor aparute.
Ideea a fost ca cel putin aceleasi persoane sa rezolve impreuna prin discutii aceste probleme,ca la inceperea concursului din 2006 macar aceste probleme sa nu mai fie subiect de controversa. Petrica, Gigel, Nelutzu, Mirel Alinutza erau si ei bineveniti la discutii, dar se pare ca acestia nu prea exista sau sunt prea fini sa suporte o "ciocnire" cu colegul de forum Pitts.
Cred ca nu exista modelist roman sau de aiurea care nu si-ar dori sa fie macar spectator la un TOP GUN american, dar se pare ,soarta noastra e sa ne "luptam" pe la concursurile autohtone.
Pentru noi, modelistii ,faptul ca unul din cei mai activi membri de pe forum , este in acelasi timp un oficial in domeniu, este de un ajutor imens. putem dezbate intr-un cadru deschis probleme ce altfel ar trebui sa treaca printr-un protocol birocratic.
Problema este ca renuntand la acest protocol, cateodata, limbajul mult prea familiar folosit , dauneaza si deturneaza subiectul discutiei, spre zone "de periferie" .
Apropos D-le PITTS! Am ajuns la o varsta, care i-mi permite sa atrag atentia interlocutorului, indiferent cine este acesta, asupra modului de adresare al acestuia. Nu-mi aduc aminte sa fi stabilit de comun acord ,modul mult prea familiar de adresare folosit de D-ta. Nu cred ca suntem suficient de apropiati, si nu cred ca vom fi , pentru a-l folosi pe TU in discutiile dintre noi!.
De fiecare data cand vine vorba de Mugurel si Jimmy, devii foarte " tepos" folosind cuvinte intr-un spectru foarte larg , de la hilar ,la vecinatatea vulgaritatii....oare de ce?
Instinctul imi spune cam fara gres cand NU sunt dorit intr-o casa... de la o vreme am senzatia ca prin modul in care suntem tratati ( !@#$%^&* ) Nu suntem bine- veniti la concursul de machete si cine stie in comunitatea modelistica, avand in vedere ca interventiile noastre sunt ,ba ignorate complet, ba coplesite de invective...
Pana acum mi-am pus AMBITZUL cum zici d-ta D-le PITTS si am trecut peste aceasta senzatie, dar , personal ,nu am de gand sa fac modelism din ambitie, cu atat mai putin machete.
Poate ar fi mai bine pentru toata lumea, ca Nationalele de anul acesta, sa se desfasoare, fara prezenta a cel putin unuia din cei doi "razvratiti".

Al dvs. sincer

JIMMY
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#27 Useril este offline   pitts 

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Postat 17 September 2006 - 01:19 AM

Draga Jimmy,

Persisti in a-ti plange de mila, in loc sa continui cu ceea ce promitea foarte mult: realizarea unor machete frumoase, care sa mai si zboare!
Anul trecut ati aratat amandoi, tu si Mugurel, ca realizarea este posibila; anul asta urma sa demonstrati ca si zborul este posibil!....se pare ca este peste puterile tale, daca renunti asa usor. (sau poate s-a dovedit ca ceea ce ati materializat anul trecut, nu prea vrea sa zboare???-nu-i nimic, trebuia sa continuati! oricum, un punct de plecare il aveati!)

Vad ca pana la urma nu numai eu sunt inamicul public nr.1, dar si intreg forumul care, iata, nu vrea sa mai participe la subiect.....Nu cred ca este chiar asa; mai degraba cred ca toti martorii acestui ...."dialog" vor veni la Strejnic sa vada progresele voastre de anul trecut si pana acum. Sa va aclame, in sfarsit ,nu numai "static", ci si dupa zbor.....si daca asta s-ar fi intamplat (un static bun, un zbor cum n-a fost anul trecut), cred ca puteati deja sa priviti la europeanul care va avea loc la anul in Ukraina..o aruncatura de batz!

Nu vreti sa veniti, treaba voastra-chestie de optiune; in plus, nu este obligatoriu, asta e clar!

Zici: "Nu cred ca suntem suficient de apropiati, si nu cred ca vom fi , pentru a-l folosi pe TU in discutiile dintre noi!."
S-a notat!

B)

In ceea cepriveste (citez din nou):
" De fiecare data cand vine vorba de Mugurel si Jimmy, devii foarte " tepos" folosind cuvinte intr-un spectru foarte larg , de la hilar ,la vecinatatea vulgaritatii....oare de ce?
Instinctul imi spune cam fara gres cand NU sunt dorit intr-o casa... de la o vreme am senzatia ca prin modul in care suntem tratati ( !@#$%^&* ) Nu suntem bine- veniti la concursul de machete si cine stie in comunitatea modelistica, avand in vedere ca interventiile noastre sunt ,ba ignorate complet, ba coplesite de invective...",

[Adica cum??? eu sunt prea familiar, darDumneavoastra ma luati lapersoana a II-a singular??!!?? (DEVII......)...in fine, treaca de la mine,ca mi-s baiat bun :-)...]

aici problema devine serioasa si ma depaseste complet!....cred ca avem de-a face cu mania persecutiei...nasolde tot!!

Manea Gheorghe, m-am cam plictisit!...cred ca si tu!
Daca tot esti asa de sigur ca nu esti dorit de nimeni-si pentru ca tot esti autorul acestui subiect-, am o propunere: fii barbat si, asa cum ai deschis acest subiect, inchide-l frate!!!

In ceea ce ma priveste, asa cum am mai spus, astept sa va vad pe tine si pe Mugurel la Strejnic,cu machete frumoase si zboruri regulamentare!
:D

La fel de amical
Marius Conu
( dar futu-l pe ala care iti mai raspunde!) :lol:

Aceasta postare a fost editata de pitts: 17 September 2006 - 01:25 AM

No brain, no headache.....
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#28 Useril este offline   MUGUREL. 

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Postat 17 September 2006 - 07:39 AM

Salutare!
Sa trag si eu o conluzie apropo de campionatul european din Ucraina:
SA MERGA CAMPIONII DE LA F4C!
Pe mine nu ma mai intereseaza campionatele externe si nici interne si nimic din ce tine de concursuri oficiale!
Anul acesta vin la Strejnic sa fiu la numar si sa urmaresc F3A.

Numai de bine!
Cu stima!
MUGUREL.
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#29 Useril este offline   Jimmy 

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Postat 17 September 2006 - 10:42 PM

. .
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#30 Useril este offline   Valteras 

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Postat 18 September 2006 - 09:06 AM

Io zic ca, desi nu pare, subiectul e urmarit cu atentie. Io cel putin il urmaresc. Dar nu (prea) ma bag. Mi-e greu, nefiind amestecat cu nimic, in mod direct, in "conflict".
Ceea ce pot sa spun, ca spectator (oarecum) echidistant, sunt urmatoarele:

1. Concurentii, legitimati la un club sau nu, au dreptul sa solicite si sa primeasca regulamentul de arbitraj. Exista modalitati de solicitare si inaintare a regulametului catre concurenti.
2. Daca in acest regulament, ARF-urile, kiturile, etc. nu sunt in mod specific interzise si regulile jocului sunt acceptate de partile beligerante, orice discutie privind legitimitatea participarii cu ARF, etc. devine caduca.
3. Daca exista suspiciuni in ceea ce priveste calitatea si onestitatea arbitrajului, se poate recurge la "institutia" contestatiei, in conditiile si termenii ce se prevad de regulament.

Cam atat... Nu stiu ce ar mai fi de spus...

Io personal, as mai spune dar, ca imi doresc din toata inima ca gashca din vest sa nu "se puna cu curu' catre padure" si nu carecumva sa nu vina la campionat. Ar fi pacat maxim. Pacat de atata munca depusa.
Io as zice "fuck the system!". Daca aveti a demonstra ceva voua inshiva (gen Nigel: "I'm quite happy challenging myself to do better...without competition with anyone else. That is enough for me."), atunci concurati de dragul competitiei cu voi inshiva (mult mai important zic eu) si dati mai mica importanta aspectelor colaterale, gen clasament oficial.

Si as mai spune ceva.
Clasamentul oficial, rezultat in urma unui campionat, nu e cel mai important.
Mult mai important este locul ocupat in inimile si constiintele celor din comunitate.
Clasamentul asta e cel ce dureaza.
Si asta nu tine de o anumita diploma si medalie atribuita de vreun for.

Meditati la asta, Mugurel si Jimmy si restul comunitatii.
Orice pas inainte e un shut in fund!
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